Hello There !
My name is Henrik and from Denmark and new on the type 44 scene - nice joining. I have had a type 43 Audi avant for many years but now I have sold it and bought a type 44 1.8 sedan from 87 (caburattor)
I would like to have a newer engine in it so my quistion is is it possible to build in an audi A4 injection engine 1.8 from 1999 in my Audi 100 from 87 1.8? Know it's a big task, but would the engine fit with engie mounts,What about gearbox housing ? the injection parts and gas tank ?
Hope someone can help.
Henrik
Is it possible to build an Audi A4 1.8 engine to my type44?
Moderatoren: Moderatoren, globale Moderatoren
Well, I´m not sure, if someone tried it so far, probably not.
I think, because of the engine size, it schould fit with no problems.
the type 44 engine bay is huge.
It is not to expect that the engine mounts will fit without any customizing. But I think this ist not a real problem.
Is the A4 engine installed lenghtwise or crosswise? (I think the last one....)
in type 44 it is lenghtwise.
The main problem will be the gearbox (and the connection to the drive axle) and the wiring harness.
I can´t imagine, that the position of the gearbox relative to the drive axle will be the same in both cars. The engine/gearbox unit ist more compact in the A4, but you have to shift ist to the right position.
Ciao
André
I think, because of the engine size, it schould fit with no problems.
the type 44 engine bay is huge.
It is not to expect that the engine mounts will fit without any customizing. But I think this ist not a real problem.
Is the A4 engine installed lenghtwise or crosswise? (I think the last one....)
in type 44 it is lenghtwise.
The main problem will be the gearbox (and the connection to the drive axle) and the wiring harness.
I can´t imagine, that the position of the gearbox relative to the drive axle will be the same in both cars. The engine/gearbox unit ist more compact in the A4, but you have to shift ist to the right position.
Ciao
André
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Nissan Pul sar Tekna 1,5dci, azureblau
Im übrigen bin ich der Meinung, daß Schnellfahrer nicht auch noch drängeln sollten und alle das Rechtsfahrgebot zu beachten haben
Nissan Pul sar Tekna 1,5dci, azureblau
Im übrigen bin ich der Meinung, daß Schnellfahrer nicht auch noch drängeln sollten und alle das Rechtsfahrgebot zu beachten haben
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henrik_type44
the engines in the A4 are longitudinally mounted, just like in your 100. Moreover, the blocks look similar because they are (well, almost...) - those 20V engines you`re talking about still belong to same the trusty old "827" engine family that first appeared in the first-generation Audi 80 in 1972 as is your current engine.
In fact, others have done this before you - especially the 1.8T is a very popular conversion to do for various VW/Audi models, so there should be some infos available out there (Example). It`s definitely doable on a budget.
P.S: The normally aspirated 1.8 20V (125 hp, engine codes AGN/APG/ADR/ARG/APT/AVV) is NOT that big an improvement over the old 2V design - it 'features' a rather uninspiring power delivery and the torque it offers down low in the rev range isn`t any better than what your old 90 hp motor offers. Don't expect your car to be transformed into something spectacular with this. If this was MY project, I`d use a turbo motor (150 hp).... not much more work for A LOT more bang....
In fact, others have done this before you - especially the 1.8T is a very popular conversion to do for various VW/Audi models, so there should be some infos available out there (Example). It`s definitely doable on a budget.
P.S: The normally aspirated 1.8 20V (125 hp, engine codes AGN/APG/ADR/ARG/APT/AVV) is NOT that big an improvement over the old 2V design - it 'features' a rather uninspiring power delivery and the torque it offers down low in the rev range isn`t any better than what your old 90 hp motor offers. Don't expect your car to be transformed into something spectacular with this. If this was MY project, I`d use a turbo motor (150 hp).... not much more work for A LOT more bang....
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henrik_type44
Hello Basian !
Just the answers I needed tanks alot ! First of all I do not need a lot of engine "bang " I just need a newer engine with injection and katalyst ! I had been offered a A4 1.8 litres engine from 1999 complete with katalyst and all that goes with it. I just wounder if I can put it in concerning engine mounts, maiting up with transission/clutch, fuel injection and what about the fueltank with electric fuelpump, do I need to change the tank?
.. also will my 4 gear transmission work out with this engine ?
Have I understand you correct - it is possible ?
Thanks again
Henrik
Just the answers I needed tanks alot ! First of all I do not need a lot of engine "bang " I just need a newer engine with injection and katalyst ! I had been offered a A4 1.8 litres engine from 1999 complete with katalyst and all that goes with it. I just wounder if I can put it in concerning engine mounts, maiting up with transission/clutch, fuel injection and what about the fueltank with electric fuelpump, do I need to change the tank?
.. also will my 4 gear transmission work out with this engine ?
Have I understand you correct - it is possible ?
Thanks again
Henrik
OK, so you`d need to change the fuel delivery system. Easiest thing would be to switch the whole fuel delivery system for one out of a fuel-injected Type44 (in the fuel-injected Type 44 cars, the fuel pump is inside the tank).
You`d need to swap the complete engine electrics/wiring loom(s). You say that your donor car is a 1999: Beware of the post-facelift A4 (model year 2000, built from 7/199 onwards), as these use a CAN-Bus for communication between the various ECUs. Additionally, post-facelift cars also have an immobilizer built into the ECU that needs to communicate with the instrument cluster as well as "drive-by-wire" throttle. Not to forget the ESP with all its sensors...
Electronically, adapting such a system into an older car is a nightmare. I`d go for an older donor car - the first A4s up to MY 1997 used the old "central electric 2" fuse boxes which should make for a much easier swap...
From what you can read on the `net, the motor mounts should indeed fit easily with no major modifications.
Mating this engine to your transmission should be possible, too. The exhaust, on the other hand, needs to be completely re-engineered.
Check this page for more info. These guys used an B2 Audi 80 as a base car - it should be a lot easier in your Type44
And keep us updated about your project!
My personal opinion: If you`re only after a catalyst, if this were MY car and as apparently you`re only after a more modern fuel-injected engine that has a catalyst and don't want to use the engine swap to upgrade the power - and I presume that you`re on a rather tight budget -
I`d go for a monomotronic 1.8 8v engine code 4B (Audi 100) resp. PM (Audi80) or the 2.0l ABT (Audi 80 B4) which are almost bolt-in fits with no mechanical and only minimal electrical/electronic installation headaches.
regards,
Bastian
You`d need to swap the complete engine electrics/wiring loom(s). You say that your donor car is a 1999: Beware of the post-facelift A4 (model year 2000, built from 7/199 onwards), as these use a CAN-Bus for communication between the various ECUs. Additionally, post-facelift cars also have an immobilizer built into the ECU that needs to communicate with the instrument cluster as well as "drive-by-wire" throttle. Not to forget the ESP with all its sensors...
Electronically, adapting such a system into an older car is a nightmare. I`d go for an older donor car - the first A4s up to MY 1997 used the old "central electric 2" fuse boxes which should make for a much easier swap...
From what you can read on the `net, the motor mounts should indeed fit easily with no major modifications.
Mating this engine to your transmission should be possible, too. The exhaust, on the other hand, needs to be completely re-engineered.
Check this page for more info. These guys used an B2 Audi 80 as a base car - it should be a lot easier in your Type44
And keep us updated about your project!
My personal opinion: If you`re only after a catalyst, if this were MY car and as apparently you`re only after a more modern fuel-injected engine that has a catalyst and don't want to use the engine swap to upgrade the power - and I presume that you`re on a rather tight budget -
I`d go for a monomotronic 1.8 8v engine code 4B (Audi 100) resp. PM (Audi80) or the 2.0l ABT (Audi 80 B4) which are almost bolt-in fits with no mechanical and only minimal electrical/electronic installation headaches.
regards,
Bastian
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henrik_type44
Hello Bastian !
Your comments is just gold, thanks alot. So What you are saying is that even though it´s a pre 1999 engine A4 (97-99) it's still a big task to have the electrics to work ( I do like mecannical work but i'm not the big ECU guy ) Well I have also considered the late type 80/100 1.8 litre engine with fuelinjection system. If this should be a possibility have you any idea what year I could go for ? As seen on the net some type44's have catalyst from 86 and ahead ? Would they may be to old ? Should I go for 88-> what about audi 80 from early ninetees ? as you see I have lot of quistions. I am relativly new on the Audi scene. ( have been working on aircoolded vw's for the last 15 years )
Also if I go for the mono or KE-jet ( as I understand it) is it possible just changing the cylinderhead and fuelsystem + ekstras ?
Thaks again
Henrik
Your comments is just gold, thanks alot. So What you are saying is that even though it´s a pre 1999 engine A4 (97-99) it's still a big task to have the electrics to work ( I do like mecannical work but i'm not the big ECU guy ) Well I have also considered the late type 80/100 1.8 litre engine with fuelinjection system. If this should be a possibility have you any idea what year I could go for ? As seen on the net some type44's have catalyst from 86 and ahead ? Would they may be to old ? Should I go for 88-> what about audi 80 from early ninetees ? as you see I have lot of quistions. I am relativly new on the Audi scene. ( have been working on aircoolded vw's for the last 15 years
) Also if I go for the mono or KE-jet ( as I understand it) is it possible just changing the cylinderhead and fuelsystem + ekstras ?
Thaks again
Henrik
The blocks are just about identical - but the compression ratios are different. The mono engine uses regular fuel and has a 9:1 compression ratio - your engine may require premium fule and have a higher compression ratio, so changing just the head would surely work, but may result in a less-than-optimal result.
The "mono" is a really simple design (quasi a modernized carburetor) which will be way easier to install than the K(E). It has WAY fewer parts than the KE.
But pictures speak louder than words - Check here:
http://audi100.selbst-doku.de/Main/Motortypen.
The Audi "mono" engines that I believe would fit into your car:
- 4b: from the Type44 and its sister
- PM: from the Type89. Both are 1.8l, 90hp. This engine was VERY popular in the Audi 80, and is really cheap to acquire. Parts cars go for less than 500 Euros.
- ABT: the successor of the PM in the Audi 80 B4, with 2 liters instead of 1.8. Power remained at 90hp.
- AAE: the successor of the 4b in the C4 Audi 100. Size grew to 2 liters and power went up to 101 hp.
Mind you, I do NOT have any practical experience in this (if I want a more recent or more powerful model, I`ll buy a version with more power right off the assembly line). Additionally, I do not work on my cars myself- that`s what mechanics are there for.
Since the english part of this forum doesn`t have that much attention, I`ll post your request in the German section. Maybe somebody with some hands -on experience will say something then
I know Helge (fourbee here in this forum) did something like that after his old engine died a few years ago. I`ll ask him...
regards,
Bastian
The "mono" is a really simple design (quasi a modernized carburetor) which will be way easier to install than the K(E). It has WAY fewer parts than the KE.
But pictures speak louder than words - Check here:
http://audi100.selbst-doku.de/Main/Motortypen.
The Audi "mono" engines that I believe would fit into your car:
- 4b: from the Type44 and its sister
- PM: from the Type89. Both are 1.8l, 90hp. This engine was VERY popular in the Audi 80, and is really cheap to acquire. Parts cars go for less than 500 Euros.
- ABT: the successor of the PM in the Audi 80 B4, with 2 liters instead of 1.8. Power remained at 90hp.
- AAE: the successor of the 4b in the C4 Audi 100. Size grew to 2 liters and power went up to 101 hp.
Mind you, I do NOT have any practical experience in this (if I want a more recent or more powerful model, I`ll buy a version with more power right off the assembly line). Additionally, I do not work on my cars myself- that`s what mechanics are there for.
Since the english part of this forum doesn`t have that much attention, I`ll post your request in the German section. Maybe somebody with some hands -on experience will say something then
I know Helge (fourbee here in this forum) did something like that after his old engine died a few years ago. I`ll ask him...
regards,
Bastian
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henrik_type44